Part Three! This has the juiciest bits out of the entire interview. Headlights video getting banned on national tv, how the New Zealand music scene has changed throughout the decade, the band moving forward and what Utopia would be like for the Grits. Enjoy.

Oh Headlights. Headlights video. Love that one by the way it’s one of the most creative ones I’ve seen 08.

B: It’s cool aye?

Cool. It’s by Down Low concept right?

B: Yep. They’re really good, smart, cool guys.

Did you guys brainstorm together?

B: No, we met at a pub and said this is the song. They didn’t even wanna know what it was about to begin with. But then I went…then with that they changed, “Okay, roughly what’s it all about,” and I just sort of summed it up in like, 2 sentences. And then we just ended up talking about Charles Vikowski (Wikowski check spelling) for the rest of the night. And then they came back with that concept.

B: Yeah.

That’s what a night out in town looks like.

M: Oh yeah. I’m the guy that sleeps in the kebab shop.

(Laughter)

Yeah, about that TV NZ Ban, I’m just curious what you guys think of, you know like…what is that indicative of, in terms of our society?

M: Who knows! I mean, they’re a big station, TVNZ, they don’t have a music show at all, and they only play music videos to fill in between programs so it’s kinda like, what’s the point? But if they were gonna play our video, it was an adults only, wasn’t it? I mean you rate it? Was it? No? Oh okay.

B: We offered to make it R rated and so that they play it after 9 and still they didn’t. I mean to me…because…when you read that like what their official response was on that, they objected to…their panel, unanimously objected to showing children drinking out of shot glasses, and also, more importantly, the way that we had instructed children to behave like adults, for the entertainment of adults? That was the main moral thrust of their objection? And the fact that there was a shot of a guy hitting on a girl? But then, that night, I watched TV One and there was a Hyundai ad of those 2 little kids, doing exactly that thing, like behaving like adults, and they go on a date to the beach and the kid puts his arm around the chick. You know. So, what it said to me is that it looks like…it made them look like hypocritic idiots, and how like, if we’ve had 200 grand to spend at their station, then they wouldn’t give a fuck. Hyundai comes along with like, advertising cheque—sweet as. And that ad would’ve got played heaps more than our music video would’ve got there anyway. So it just made them…it’s ousted them as being like, they’ve dug themselves into a corner with that one. ‘Coz we kinda smelt publicity. So made a press release and forced them to make an official statement? ‘Coz they didn’t want to make an official statement to the public? And by making them say that, they just…they looked themselves like real, dicks.

(Marlon laughs)

B: And I don’t know if it’s because that the State Board passed it that they have to kinda watch…thing is that, there is that stuff, I was thinking it might provoke some interesting discussions about, you know how there’s the whole like, it’s not, “It’s not the drinking, it’s how we’re drinking,” that’s going on at the moment, and crazy levels of domestic violence against children and, these are all sort of ‘buzzy’ in March when we we filmed that? And I thought that it might be a little bit too close to the bone for that stuff, in a good way, like in a like, okay, let’s, you know, that’s what I’d do, it can take a set sort of things, that are happening at the moment and hold them up in a like, way that you can talk about that, but you’re talking about the stuff that you’re focusing it on other things that happen to not be okay to talk about?

And they just…I mean, I don’t know. Just dumb. What dicks. To sum it up in there, what dicks.

I think it helped you guys actually–

B: Fuck yeah.

–instead of hurt you. ‘Coz it created a buzz and people got curious and logged on to YouTube–

N: I mean parents come up to me and they watched it, and they were like, no worries. But it’s also, I reckon, it’s really indicative of, of this weird, paranoia that’s arisen where the adults are taking charge over what stories their children listen to? You know like it’s sort of started with Disney, changing fairy tales so that you know just to try and soften the blow to young minds and not actually realizing that young minds are pretty intelligent and emotionally intelligent as well and can deal with Grimm fairy tales and you know, those…and world myths and things like that, they deal with… but it’s getting to the point where like, I have some friends who are in a show “The Ugly Duckling” at the moment, and there’s just…it’s so boring, there’s nothing interesting going on because they’ve just softened all of the corners, and so kids will have no immunity to any real imagery really, you know, they’ll have no immunity and it would kind of, I think, more than anything it would encourage them later on to start drinking than to just kind of like “This is a part of life”you know? You sometimes drink…when you dance, you dance.

B: My mom got really angry when it got banned?

M: Yeah!

B: And she’s quite, she’s one of these like “Letter to the Editor” ladies to the Herald when she feels upset about something (She’s just really a pain [??]))…And she wrote in saying, “I am the mother of the singer of the band that made that video that was now banned.” And she made this cool point of like, “Aren’t they all having fun in the video? But isn’t what they’re doing the type of behaviour that we celebrate at 21st speeches? When we are proud parents looking back over our kids and their funny–” you know it’s not…it’s not that…it’s not, I mean we, we are so hypocritical. We encourage that [tobeliyo] once you hit legal age, “Get fucked up!” Parents would be like… some kind of…yeah.

And I think there are worse videos to, you know–

B and M: Yeah!

N: And we’re talking about ‘bitches and hoes’ I mean I saw a music video with exactly that. During daytime television with a sight of that.

B: That’s doing more bad stuff to kids.

M: It is!

B: Little girls learning how to like, booty dance and wanting to…I mean that’s sweet as, that’s always gonna happen, but like, that’s like, if you’re a little girl, shaping your view of adult life off hip hop music videos, that’s scary. Very wrong you know?

N: Worse than the party.

And even reality shows now like…

B: Yeah. (Then after a pause, mimed puking behind the table)

(Laughs)

Okay. New Zealand music. What do you guys think of New Zealand music now compared to, say, 10 years ago?

B: Yeah it’s changed heaps. I think there’s more…um…I tend to go…there’s definitely more…I think there’s more…now since there’s been these initiatives to get New Zealand music sort of treated like an export product and trying to break into foreign music markets and everything, these initiatives in like their success is always with, where bands can actually be a band, and live off their band, and tour and then play in Australia or whatever. But in order to do that there’s like a bit more of a commercial sounding package, look, whole thing. That’s kind of all over the world now, so, whereas before, I guess, back in the day, even ten years ago there’s still, there’s a, whenever I think about Kiwi music, it would always go hand in hand with Alternative music, pretty much.

More Indie.

B: Yeah. But not anymore. But I mean there’s still heaps of fucking great shit getting made here. Coz we just got that cool thing of our isolation and what however why that is but it always generates really good, really healthy scenes, for some reason? I don’t know why.

N: I don’t know why, I mean I’ve just been on a…I’ve “tripped” around the world and, it’s, New Zealand music just sounds so different especially when you’re away from New Zealand, and you can hear it amongst everything else which around. There’s, something about it, that’s really, really fucking different.

I listen to lots of Little Bushman when I was on the plane, and just, it’s really evocative, I think, made me feel like I was right back home, And you know going to places, I think, I sort of think, especially Australia, and maybe America where they’ve been so terrible to the indigenous people of the land–and not saying that issue that New Zealand hasn’t been terrible to the Maori but, I think it’s incredible that things exist in this country like if you’re a politician, you need to know Maori.. YOu need to know, Te Reo, and I like the, as like, I like listening to it because they were added to, to really incorporate that, and not a kind of cheesy, touristy sort of way, but, you know, they were really, kind of, in a grounded, sincere way. And you can’t deny that when you hear it, you can’t bag it.

M: Yeah. It’s a weird, unique sound, New Zealand music at the moment. You can sorta tell that the singer sounds like he’s Kiwi or she’s Kiwi, which has got that, I don’t know.

B: I mean, when you say “New Zealand music” that’s pretty fucking broad now. Are you talking about “Misfits of Science?” Are you talking about…

M: No..but..

B: Well what are you talking about?

M: I don’t know, it’s just weird! Like, especially with hip hop, and, but I dunno, but Misfits of Science doesn’t sound like they’re kiwi–

B: But you can tell that–

M: –no one did!

B: Everyone thought they were, um, American

M: Yeah. Or maybe ‘coz I just saw them and I heard that they were kiwi and maybe…

B: But when that tune was on bFM first, everyone was like, American. When the video came out, they were like, “What? They’re Kiwis?!”

N: But I mean, I guess you can say that about any group, I mean you were talking about London Posse that were like, possibly the first group to start singing in their own accent. So, every country has that really, I mean, Elton John’s not American, but he sings in an American accent, you know, for a really bad example. So, it happens. And I guess when we talk about Kiwi music we’re talking about those few groups who–

B: Yeah.

N: –singing in their own language, and, time and place?

B: I guess. But there is there is… I get a bit, to be honest I get a bit impatient and bored with a lot of Kiwi nice, sounding, groovy, Aotearoa…roots-conscious kind of music? Because there was that thing you know about 6 or 7 years ago when Fat Freddy’s Drop…and there were some beautiful bands like Fat Freddy’s and Trinity Roots sort of started this, you know, conscious, roots-y kinda sound, but these are…and it’s born quite a lot of bands but to me, they were just trying to sound like that? Trying to sound like a New Zealand band? But their song is, you steal one’s fucking songs? And the song should be about, at least it should be about something. A lot of, there’s a lot of that kinda Dub-y, groovy, powow yeah everyone new zealand music, it’s just…the singer sings really beautifully. Amazing voice. But what the fuck’s it about? I mean, c’mon everyone, let’s feel nice and, listen to the rhythm and, yayaya Aotearoa represent or whatever, I mean that’s cool. And I kinda understand why it works ‘coz if you’re just smoking a joint, at a park, that playing, it’s sunny, it feels nice to just sway your hips. But, I started, I’ve just started to get, a little bit, I don’t have to just like it ‘coz it’s, I’m a bit like, you should still impress me! You know, lots of bands who do that well but a lot…lots that go, kind of a feel of just sorta kinda trying to jump in that, “Hey we’re that too!” You still gotta back it up.

I guess maybe because they’re too self-conscious on how they should sound like…is that what you’re saying?

B: Yeah…or like, not actually don’t have anything interesting to say. But wanna be in a band. And wanna play festivals and smoke pot and be in the scene. Which is cool…

(Then we got interrupted by a friend of the band who recognized them)

Speaking of busy, what have you been up to at present? Like projects?

B: Like the band? Well, we’re making another music video…and that’s been like every evening for the weeks…Trigby who used to play percussion with us, and Nisha’s been helping out and me, we’re making these, we’re making a whole lot of puppets of the band members, and their gonna do a Muppets kind of puppet, music video.

Cool. And you’re gonna knit?

N: (Laughs) I should’ve knitted something!

B: Yeah it’d be funny—

M: –Knitting would’ve gone really well.

N: At present, I’m painting. Just finished painting a bit of Barnie’s puppet of himself. [And we here at the back of my hand it’s here who are one of the puppets that I have to get

B: We did a little enterprise on tour of selling T-shirts, so just trying to figure out what the next line of those are gonna be.

You guys design them yourselves?

B: Yeah. Um…and then, and then it’s just sort of we’ve had a couple of new line up changes in we just, at the moment, in that thing of like, liking to write, new songs? We’re exploring some slightly different styles as well and then just kind of getting ready for summer. I’ve kind of got this idea that I want to have some sort of dance troupe on stage with us.

What’s that?

Some sort of dance troupe, on stage with us–

–Doing cryptwalking (laughs)

B: Yeah, cryptwalking animals–I’m obsessed with like, marine animals in the Hot Grits. I want some sort of fish-costumed people on stage with us. Wherever the stage is big enough.

N: Fishnet, fish costumes…

B: Yeah

(Laughs)

M: Squidboy…Crab-Lobster-Sol, (laughs)

B: So, there’s a, they’re plannin to maybe record other half next year? They’re going on a 3-month hiatus next year, I’m going overseas, and everyone’s just, people I think–someone else is going overseas a wee bit. Take time out. I’m gonna go to Africa so I’ll hopefully comeback with heaps of awesome ideas.

N: And a dance troupe.

(Laughs)

B: And a dance troupe, yeah yeah bring them over. Awesome.

M: Awesome (laughs)

Tribe. Whole Tribe.

H: (laughs)

Whereabouts in Africa are you thinking?

B: Where mainly West Africa ‘coz that’s where all of the music that I pretty much collect comes from? So, Nigeria, Ethiopia, Ghana, Mali, Republic of Benin, those are the ones that I wanna go to. But I wanna do it by train? So, I’d probably go through other ones along the way?

Nisha you mentioned that you traveled, like, you’ve just been traveling. Where did you go?

N: I went to..My family, is basically from New Delhi but as you can imagine, not many opportunities exist there so they’re now all dispersed around the world? So, all I wanted to do is visit my family. And I had to visit a whole bunch of countries so I went to Australia to see my brother, and I went back to Qatar for the first time in 13 odd years to visit some relatives there. And then to London to visit a new little addition to the family. And then I spent a weekend in Madrid with some friends of mine, and then I ended up in Chicago to visit more family, and then back. So. It’s gotten to the point now where I had to get a round the world ticket if I want to see, all of my family.

That’s awesome.

N: Yeah, I guess so. It is awesome. Yeah.

Do you travel much Marlon?

M: No, not at all. Haven’t been away for a while? Went to Australia couple of times, but haven’t left Australasia since I got here. But yeah, it’s really weird, like this tour that we went on, two weeks, thirteen gigs in fifteen days, kind of gave me a little bit of inspiration so to speak you know? It’s quite cool. It’s good fun traveling around the country and seeing the sights and hanging out with these guys in a van all day you know? It was actually a lot of fun. Hard work. But fun.

Any countries or cities would be cool to perform at?

B: New York.

B and N: New York.

B: For sure. Definitely

Time Square?

M: I dunno what kinda clubs are out there aye, I dunno what the clubs are but, you know just…

B: Well yeah Antibalas playing Time Square club.

M: Oh yeah? Cool.

B: There’s a really good Afro beat scene in New York.

Really.

B: Yeah. And also that kind of renaissance funk scene like, Sharon Jones and the Dap-Kings all that scene. This band called Antibalas, pretty much the best, Afrobeat band around. Amazing. Barcelona would be cool. And Madrid. Anywhere in Spain.

I’m seriously thinking we should go to Melbourne. Before we die.

M: Okay.

Perform in Melbourne?

B: Yeah. Might as well.

N: Yeah. Pretty much. THey don’t have, I think they, they sort of have that Indie rock scene and that’s quite where it stops. Except for every now and then in you know, things like international gigs and that every now and then there’ll be a Fat Freddy’s gig.

Right.

Okay, if you had it your way, what would be utopia like, you know, musically. Like, in the music scene here. What would be the ideal?

B: The music scene in New Zealand?

Like what could improve? How can it be better?

B: I dunno…

N: I’d have to bow out of that ‘coz I don’t really feel like I’ve been, like right inside the part of the music scene in New Zealand…

M: That’s pretty hard. You can’t educate people to like your music. You know unless you go out there and play it you know? But…I mean, you can’t ask much more from the government at the moment, can you?

B: Course you can. You know what, you should always ask more of the government.

M: (Laughs)

N: Mar–LON!

M: Aww..

B: Um…

N: Bad!

You are your own Government! (taken from one of their songs)

M: Well we are our own Government you know okay so here we go, yeah right…but…

N: Not to ban our music videos?

B: Yeah, not to ban awesome music videos.

N and M: yeah..

B: And probably…I mean I dunno…Okay, Utopia. So that doesn’t have to be realistic. I mean, I would, umm, ban, outlaw…or just change the way commercial radio works. Change the quotas of it. Because you can’t get angry at the kids for liking such shit music.

So like, um..yeah I’d give lots of money to bands that have never got any funding before.

Ban any band that’s ever been described as “Easy Listening”

(Hysterical laughter from everyone)

Make it compulsary, for all politicians, to go to at least one gig a week and get drunk in it.

M: Ooh, (laughs) that’s utopia!

B: Have–

M: –Winston Peters…rockin’ on…

B: Have dancing and music appreciation classes start pre-school, in the education system?

N: I think that’s a great idea!

M: That’s a big one.

That’s really good!

M: That’s a big one.

B: Oh, and have a big stage somewhere, a big outdoor stage that um, local council paid for every weekend a band to play for free at.

There’s so many things you can do.

I like your thinking man.

B: And not even that fantastical really. (Maybe.) LIke some countries do that. Barcelona does that.

Free. Like the Government funds that…

B: Yeah.

N: A lot of, I don’t know, why this, but a lot of countries, really treasure their arts? Like they really treasure their music, treasure live theatre…but I don’t know that New Zealand really treasures it as like a healthy thing in your everyday life to have? You know it’s something that is always going on in order to keep the society together because that, in my view, that is what music and story, theatre, film, not so much tv—but that’s what they do, is they bring you, bring a whole bunch of strangers in to a place together and they get moved or are moved together. Maybe it’s something to do with being so isolated and having such a culture of isolation from being a farming country but, it’s like, people are scared to stand in a room together you know?

People have a huge personal space here.

N: Yeah. Yeah they really do.

Like they get nervous when someone’s close enough, they’d be like, “what are you doing?”

N: Yeah.

Final two questions. Umm..oh, I forgot…last question.

HG: Laughs.

Where is the Hot Grits headed?

N: To. Hell. No just kidding.

(laughs)

B: Defamation court. For Hell.

M: We’d probably party, we’d probably party in the Election in November…The Hot Grits party.

Umm, we’re gonna be touring over summer quite a bit, playing lots of festivals and outdoor things. And writing new music I suppose, in 6 months hopefully.

B: The idea is to maybe go away in a band camp. I mean it’s just to do the things…’coz I’ve sort of been in it from pretty much since the start. And it is getting…it is like, 6 years in you kinda go, wow, fuck, maybe there is gonna be a “Use By” date soon. And maybe there will be a time when it stops. No one’s got any

idea where we’re headed now but, it’s like a major thing: “Stuff I want to have done with the Grits before it stops,” and that’s solely there are things in there like–little things like, “Have my own fan t-shirt. Have a music video. Have an album. Tour the country.” Like, yup yup yup, tick tick tick.

But now I would like to do, for our next album, I want to work with a producer? Because we’ve produced our own recordings to date. And I, I mean we do it all the time in theatre. We get a director and you go, “I’ve got this idea for a show, I’ve come up with this character, my mate’s come up with this character, we’ve kind of got this…can you help us? And the three of you work together, and you come up with a show.”

And I’m really liking now how we are finally at that..we’re open to collaborations I think, for the first sort of been quite a while, we werent’ that secure in what our own sound was, so we didn’t have big moments of jam out, in our songs, where we could just improvise. And we wouldn’t like, get our musician mates to come on stage, ‘coz we were quite like, “Hang on, we’re just trying to figure out what we’re doing.”

M: Yeah.

B: But now, this last year, we’re like pretty solid in where we sit with our music now so, on tour, we get some really cool collaborations with people–

M: Yeah yeah…

B: SO that’s more of that. And then, I think, for the next album, I want to suggest that we work with a producer. I would like to try that process out with the Grits before we stop. And the thing with going away on fucking band camp. Get the band, go away to a bach, for a week. And just hang out, take LEC, write music, listen to records, cook together, you know, just do…the most time we spend making music is still, two hours a week. Two, three hours a week. ‘Coz we were like, our band members would do some homework, try some shit, then maybe we’d have an hour and half to follow an idea? But then, yeah, we go home…

M: Then you gotta work, then come back on Tuesday. ‘Coz that’s the only time that we have we’re all workers and full-timers.

B: It’d be amazing to just see what happens if we even had two days? You know? We used to have these day jams on Sundays. And on one day jam, we made up 3 songs that are on the album. Starts of those songs. So, we need to do that.

N: Can we also add to your checklist, play with an international act? Or internationally?

M: Oh yes…we’re opening for Roy Ayers…

B: Beautiful, legend, soul music. on the 25th of October?

M: Yeah, 25th. Jazz, funk, soul-we get to play before him and then watch him play, and just, hang out and watch his performance? We hardly ever get to do that you know? So it’ll be good.

B: Yeah, play a gig with Little Bushman would also be a good thing.

N: It’s really cool to have been picked up by whoever was looking for his opening act…what did they Google in New Zealand and how the fuck did they find us! (Laughs)

Sweet. Oh cool man, thanks you guys, thanks for your time.

B: Thank you. That was a cool interview! Usually they’re pretty, standard.

Oh thanks man.